i really enjoyed this latest tendril into dismantling a narrative that serves the masters henchmen. and it is telling and beautiful when the various aspects of being human come together to help clue us in: i particularly love the etymological connections, being a word lover.
and it may be slightly off topic and yet somehow not: did you know that the bodhidharma, the man who took Buddhism from india into china, was blue-eyed and by some is described as having red-hair? (a hint of an introduction is here: https://darumasan.blogspot.com/2005/02/me-blue-eyes-of-daruma.html )
hasta luego.
we are living the bhagavad-gita wedded to the great apocalypse! all the best with what is changing. everything changes! with peace, respect, love and equanimous enthusiasm.
that link is a very basic introduction to the difficult and enigmatical bodhidharma. i've not done a deep dive on him. i simply come across references to him being blued eyed and, at times, red-haired. he is also reported, by some, to have been the developer of what became kung fu in china. again, i haven't done the deep dive to get the skinny on that. hmmmmm.
Can I hit that Like 12 times? Ratio!!!! We have so missed you! Where ya been? There was a mini-detective hunt going on among your friends. But despite our sleuthing, no clue. So happy to see you and your new moniker!
I'm looking forward to that! I became friends with Amy of What's In a Name Really? because of you and I've done a number of posts using her amazing AI art. Here's one: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/the-horus-gamos
I’m only learning now about ancient Indian history so can’t claim to know very much at all, save for the few bits and bobs I’ve picked up in books I’ve read only very recently. And as I didn’t train in history, linguistics, archeology, or anthropology, I must confess I am not too sure how to interpret evidence or discern what counts as quality evidence. So it’s interesting to read this and also all the comments and expand my brain!
This is a bit random (or maybe totally random!) but picking up on the note around Aryans being (sedentary) farmers as well as being nomadic violent colonisers…in humans, is there evidence to support the idea that sedentary grain-centred agriculture led to more violent, hierarchical societies compared with nomadic hunter-gatherer groups? I guess this is like saying is patriarchy the root cause or our agricultural practices…(!) and then asking what the corollaries of that might be??
From the science training I do have, I know that there is quite a bit of evidence to support the hypothesis that animals with more stable and abundant food sources tend to exhibit more aggressive behaviours. Which seems odd as you’d think more food = less hunger = more cooperative behaviours. Instead we tend to find more competitive behaviours, like vocalisation, physical combat, aggressive displays and chasing. Indirect competition also occurs via the formation of dominance hierarchies (ie a ranking system “pecking order” lol) which in theory is meant to reduce the energetic cost of outright aggressive behaviours.
Predictors of which species (or individuals) “win” combats or monopolise resources at supplementary feeders include body size and also odour, aggressiveness, hunger and weapons (the latter four can lead smaller species/individuals to out-compete larger ones). As the difference in body size between two organisms increases, the likelihood of a direct encounter increases. Ditto for high population density.
On the other hand when food is less spatially and temporally predictable, less dominant species can access more food. So for supplementary feeding of endangered species, a conservation “management” intervention could be providing food but less predictably spatially and temporally (not in the same place or time everyday) to prevent non-target species from monopolising the food supply.
So that brings me back to my question…bearing in mind the dangers of extrapolating animal research to humans (social Darwinism and all) and the fact that I have probably zero knowledge of what the literature says about abundance of food/resources correlation (if any) to the formation of hierarchy in humans. And there are probably a ton of other factors eg permaculture type practices are more holistic and living in harmony with nature (as opposed to modern day agriculture which is monoculture/dominance and control based); there are awesome stories from places eg Kingdom of Benin where there was no crime (indeed, no doors on the houses!) because everything was so abundant…
So if anyone can enlighten me on this in the human realm, much appreciated!
I'll answer you and Crow here, LoWa, since I think you're both asking the same question, in different ways. Let me start with what I'm accepting as my starting points but maybe not the right order:
In ancient Egypt, a small band of tall, red-haired men representing the cult of Set usurped the rule of the priestess representing the Goddess, using the name of her house, Par-O, as their own name for king. If the story of Joseph represents this time, I think they did impose grain production as a means of taxation.
The Set Par-O included all the ones with Seti in their names, plus Ramsses, Amenhotep. They used warriors of a different race--Hittites, Habiru. They were kicked out by Ahmoses and maybe went to Greece and became the Hellenists. I'm not dogmatic on the existence of ancient Rome: the word Hellenist is used to describe who the anti-imperialists oppose.
Iran is where we know they used the word Aryan for themselves. When it's defined as meaning noble, we take that as an adjective. But I think it was 'a noble', a member of the ruling class. A small aristocracy, not a whole race. Those left behind weren't Aryans because they weren't the 'sky gods.' The name was made up by them to describe themselves, it wasn't what they were called in the generations before they left home and developed their techniques of terrorism and conquest.
Those living in Iran weren't Aryan, only the ruling class. I think they all answered to the same hierarchy and coordinated attacks, distracting here so they could conquer there. When they come to India, they speak Sanskrit 'the language of the gods' but there's no written version. They write their mythologies in other languages. The Yahwist scriptures were written first, then the Priestly books of the Torah and the Vedas. In all of them, intermarriage btw races or castes is the greatest prohibition.
When they come back to Europe, it's as conquerers through the Roman Empire? The language they impose is Latin. They eradicate all of the mother tongues, in the same way they destroyed Goddess and the rights of mothers. Instead, they develop languages that have their 'hex words' in them, so that it restricts the ways people can communicate and think.
So I would say the languages are Aryan, not because the people are, but because the 'sky gods' or heirs of the air made sure only their languages survived. The speech group isn't arrogant assholes but the air gods are, including their latest spawn of the Rothschilds. And I do think they intermarried with the nobility--using their women as concubines and then promoting the son as the divinely appointed heir. Divinity passes through the mother, and they were the high priests, the grand vizier behind the throne.
Also randomly thinking about “hex” and “set” and “sex” and how these are almost the same word. In Hindi the “s” and “h” are adjacent in the alphabet and so I think of the sounds as similar.
Hex means curse. But hex also means 6 (hexane , hexagon)
Sex means…well you know what sexual intercourse means! Sex also means six (“sextuplet”).
Is it odd that the sacred act of conception (sex) is synonymous with being a curse (hex)? Or maybe that’s Eve tempting Adam into sin in the garden…And if depopulation were your aim, does it make sense to see sex as a curse?
And why are both these words tied up with the number 6?? Star of David is what first comes to mind. But the second thing i think of is structured water, where H3O2 forms a hexagonal crystalline structure, which is how spring water seems to be organised. And there is all kinds of healing properties to this.
I'll respond to you here, Catchadragon, to catch both you and LoWa. I'm really glad to see this connection--two deep researchers and logical thinkers.
Krivda is next up on my list to read, although there's much more from When God Was a Woman I want to talk about first. What's key to the sex change from Goddess to God is that it changed the character of God to one that wanted sacrifice, something that would be anathema to any mother with her children.
In the Torah, up until Abdi-Ashirta/ Abraham, the child that 'opened the womb' had to be 'dedicated' to God, meaning sacrificed. Abdi-Ashirta's inability to have a child with the priestess who carried divinity to the son--until he sent her away to have sex with the 'lord'--changed this because he wasn't willing to sacrifice that son and give power to the lower caste son Ishmael. And Goddess knows if Ishmael was even his son, when it seems like his problem impregnating Sara.
The concept of sacred as sacrifice is crucial, a word that includes cross and crux and crucible. Torture and pain as what will give the one ordering the sacrifice power OVER god, the means to boss god around. It's not just god's gender that matters, it's that this is unthinkable for a mother.
For the priestess, the purpose of divination was to understand the Will of Goddess, knowing that would be the best for everyone.
And yes, LoWa, I think that 6 was a divine number, from Diva, Goddess, not sacred hex-six meaning sacrifice to the fukker god. I think five and the pentacle was a hex number. I'll be looking at the tarot reading Isaac did for me later today and pentacles come up repeatedly, and not in a good way.
In an early video, I looked at the six-pointed star as an overlay of the masculine pyramid and the upside-down (or right-side up) matrix that expands into arms reaching out.
To echo Catchadragon, good connections! To both of you!
Fascinating! It’s been a while since I read Krivda and my brain is fuzzy on details but would love to know where it aligns with and where it contradicts your work so can’t wait for your analysis of it.
Also just thinking aloud here about the cross, Crucible, crux, cruzar (in Spanish means “to cross” like to cross a road).
Isn’t it strange that the way teachers mark students’ answers that are incorrect is with a “x”, ie a cross? So a cross means “wrong” but if you wear a cross around your neck (shaped like “t”) as a Christian, you are “right”? (And usually on the right wing of the political spectrum too).
Also is there something weird going on with the cross i.e. X. X is Elon Musk’s favourite letter by the sounds of things. He’s named lots of his companies with an X…What is going on here?? Also “Disease X” was being floated for a while.
“X” when said aloud also means “out” - as in external, extraterrestrial, extant, extinct, excommunicated. And humans are either in the “in” club or we are “out” in an out group, outsiders, outcast, too outspoken, outlandish, “out there.” So it strikes me that a cross or X is not a good thing…? But sometimes is -eg “extraordinary”, excellent, ecstatic.
On a related note I do like quadrants which are created by a kind of cross (vertical and horizontal) although this is problematic in western dualistic Cartesian reductionist thinking because it reduces everything to your x-y axis. A 2D plane, flattening reality, oversimplifying it, erasing texture and difference and holism and systems. But the number 4 (after all X has four sides) is deeply spiritual in indigenous cultures - the four winds, the four sacred animals (jaguar, serpent, hummingbird, eagle), the four elements, the four seasons, the four compass points.
So there may be some krivda (deception / crooked truth) going on with cross / X / quadrants / four..?
This is totally me musing off the cuff and impromptu so keen to hear anyone else’s thoughts!
Did I write this somewhere you read, LoWa, or are we just thinking with the same mind? Yes, definitely the word sex combines Set Hex. And sacred means 'a worthy sacrifice.' Don't women call their courses The Curse? And isn't that what Yahweh does to Eve with pain in 'labor'?
Depop doesn't go that far back, or we wouldn't be here. But rape sure does. It turned pro-creation into putting a hex on women and forcing them to be a beast of burden for the man's precious seed.
LOVE your sleuthing on the number 6. There are no bad numbers, of course, but 6 does seem especially magical--if we could excise the magi out of that word.
Have I told you I found a whole world of new women sites--thanks to either you or Nonna, someone who subbed, whose reposts I checked out. This one is great and goes straight to why matrilocal and matrilineal are the way Goddess designed us: https://womenscoalition.substack.com/p/are-fathers-irrelevant-do-only-mothers.
In my brain I have the phrase “hexane set cult” from somewhere (may have been something you wrote but I’m just mis-remembering the actual phrase) and I just woke up the morning thinking “is it 6 o clock yet?” Lol. And then thinking about hex/sex
Oooh yes I did learn of sacred/sacrifice from Enna Reitort in Krivda!
That’s a good point about rape. And blame it on woman since women are cursed and dirty (menstrual blood) and evil anyways!
I’ve had a side obsession with water since I discovered Gerard Pollack’s TED talk and Veda Austin’s water crystallography…so wasn’t too much sleuthing required! I just had the hexagonal atom bond structure imprinted in my brain. Also from chemistry classes at high school - graphene also has the hexagonal latticework structure.
And so do honeycombs! And snowflakes, quartz crystals, many molecules (fructose, testosterone, heroin), pollen grains, cells arrangement in plant tissues, insect eyes, reptile scales, bubbles in the surface of water, butterfly wing scales…
Very interesting piece on father irrelevance! Although wish I could say they “should” do more to make themselves more relevant haha, as when a mum is nursing up through the night, if the man wants kids so badly he should make life easier for her, change diapers, clean the house, cook food because she’s a zombie during that time. And he probably isn’t. Instead men are leading causes of death for pregnant women and can turn nasty when kids are born
Oooh these have a bunch of links I have to follow up on! And also in your other post from today - comments are now closed on Crow’s post but I’ll have a proper read of your reply on ethics/sovereignty/freedom soon 😊☀️ I think my quick takeaway is that we do agree the facts of the matter do matter and therefore do determine what makes something ok / justifiable / ethical, in addition to whether it would be ethical in reverse.
PS are you planning to go to Crone Island? It’s a mythical place where women dance in the moonlight and sip margaritas hi fiving each other…Could be a good place to test out your community building ideas! 💃🌒🏝️
As JL Lash pointed out Sac is the Sanskrit for power. Sacrifice, sacral, sacrilege, sacrosanct,sacred, sacrament. Some relate to transformation and power or an alchemy happening.
Wowzers I feel like I’m reading an encyclopedia/PhD condensed into a comment. And as I haven’t followed all the threads through their winding journeys, I feel like I have a lot to catch up on! I’m going to reread this a few times to digest it and spend some time going down the rabbit holes myself so I understand it all better.
I’m also wondering - you’ve read so much and analysed all these things so deeply..what is your thought process when you come across a new source? How do you know it’s legit? I ask because when it comes to ancient history, I’d like to learn more but also keen to learn how to be more discerning about what’s real and what’s not! (Or perhaps “on balance, what’s more likely to be true”)🙏🏾😊
Excellent question! Somewhere I think I have a post that talks about that.
I start with my dogma, that I'm no better than anyone else. If the person is writing from a position of 'us vs them' with superiority built in, I can sometimes use their data but not their conclusions.
And I look at how the data fits with other things I've found to be true. And the ordinary things--footnotes, writing style, are they trying to make money, get ahead in academia, or just figuring things out? When someone like Merlin Stone puts all that work into researching when it's not even her field, she's more likely to be finding something interesting, I find.
Thanks for the deep dive and references Tereza. I’ll reread when I have more time (always a challenge). I can only follow the edges of this discussion unfortunately. So I rely heavily on others interpretations such as you and Crow. I do pick up some of the reference books for my history library but admit I have yet to read many (library primarily for my granddaughter now). My sense is that this history is important to understand current events, tribal motivations, and where the power brokers are taking us. But true human/earth history is found in the largely hidden (manipulated and suppressed) history of peasantry and paganism. I’ve found that people who have suffered the conquerors are more aligned with my evolving understanding of what is real, and (perhaps not coincidentally) important. My lifetime experiences have reinforced my belief that with enough foundational truth, I can see the future with high probability, and better prepare. For my sons and granddaughter. I’m curious about the euro goddesses. What was their morphology? (That may not be the right word.) Again, thanks for the mind warp adventure.
What you pointed out about the contradiction between the Proto-Indo-Europeans/Aryans being nomadic and being farmers is a good point. It's something that occurred to me, as well. What is apparent is that the Proto-Indo-European had a range of native words that referred to agriculture. Those words were not borrowed from another language, as was the case for seafaring terms, which were borrowed from a semitic language.
There is not necessarily any contradiction here - it is entirely possible that speakers of the same language could live different life styles. Some could have been farmers and others could have been raiders/conquering assholes. There are other possible scenarios that could explain this apparent contradiction.
As for the beekeeping, I might have been wrong about that. They could have harvested wild honey to make their alcohol.
Also, I don't have a degree in anthropology... I do consider myself an amateur anthropologist, but I don't have credentials... yet. I have been taking courses at an online university though.
I appreciate having someone handy who's delved into this. Your credentials work for me.
The earliest pre-written language of the Aryans (defined as those who ruled Iran) is ... Sanskrit? Is there any remnants of indigenous (non-Aryan) languages that still exist from the English/ Irish/ Scottish areas?
Interesting about the agriculture words and seafaring terms.
The only pre-Aryan non-Indo-European languages which survive in Europe are Basque and Saami.
The only other non-PIE-descended languages in Europe are Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian, but these languages can be traced back to people who migrated westward from the Uralic mountains more recently.
All the languages that are known to have existed in the British Isles are all descended from PIE. Presumably there were languages spoken there before, but we don't know anything about them.
Hmmm ... just wondering again about that PIE terminology. How can a non-proto-European language have survived in Europe? Aren't Saami and Basque proto-European by definition, since they were in Europe originally and survived the monopoly on languages by Aryan derivatives?
If the Aryans brought Sanskrit to India, which they used among themselves before it was ever written and called 'the language of the gods,' it seems like it must have come from somewhere and been wiped from memory--intentionally?
It may be helpful to think of PIE as a linguistic term, rather than a geographic one.
If you replaced PIE with the term Aryan, the confusion would disappears. Saami and Basque and non-Aryan languages, but they are European languages.
It does seem like the Aryans have been written out of history since WWII, at least in the West. They're not the focus of as much archaeological research as you would think, given their importance to world history.
I'm glad that you've taken up the cause of rescuing the word, although I would say that tarring an entire speech community as aggressive assholes probably isn't the best way of representing them. And I don't think they were inbred; I think they expanded through strategic alliance-building marriages with people of many different ethnicities.
But when you try to reconstruct the customs of an ancient people you're entering the realm of speculation.
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The "Aryans" came out of India. They didn't invade India, they didn't have a picnic in India and spread the Vedas into India from Central Asia. The Vedas have been part of Hindu culture for at least 10,000 years, most likely tens of thousands of years.
White people mostly from England couldn't accept the fact that Sanskrit is the root language for most European languages, couldn't accept the fact that the Vedas are older than age of the earth that "scholars" had determined based on the Bible (6000 years), so they invented the Aryan invasion theory. There's no evidence to support that theory, so they changed it to the Aryan migration theory and there's no evidence to support that either.
Abhijit Chavda presents evidence to support this on his youtube channel and also in many articles and publications like this one:
And then, on someone's recommendation (Julius?) I listened to PhilosophiCat read passages from it for this episode: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/good-vs-evil. What shocked me was its similarity to the moral code of the Torah--violence is required by god in order to prevent women from having sex with men in other castes. That's the rationale. Here's what I write after quoting the BG:
"So it all comes back to the women. Without a strong dynasty enforcing the religion, the women will have sex or marry for love and not within their own caste. These children are unwanted—not by their fathers or mothers but by the ruling caste. Those bastards, figuratively or literally, will stop giving food and water to their ancestors! They won’t do community projects and family welfare activities! All the ancestors will go to hell!
"So that’s why it’s righteous and good to kill these kinsmen, who are not subjugating the women, so that you don’t end up in hell. Does anyone else see a strong correlation to the Torah, with its condoning of violence and condemnation of love? The ‘sin’ that can never be forgiven by Yahweh is intermarriage with the Canaanites. All the killing in revenge for that is a-okay with God."
That contradicts my only dogma that I'm no better than anyone else, although light-skinned Brahmin males may defend it. Since reading Merlin Stone, I was surprised to discover she'd made the same observation of similarity--and had the anthropology to back it up. And LoWa, a dark-skinned Indian feminist, confirms that colorism and patriarchy are not mere religious concepts that have no consequences.
What you're insisting is that racism and sexism are indigenous to India for tens of thousands of years and, unlike their neighbors, NEVER had a Goddess culture that saw all people as equal and prioritized the mothers who prioritized the children. Instead, India has always served the egos of men.
My research doesn't agree and states that India had one of the most advanced Goddess societies with a highly developed matrifocal civilization until the Aryans fucked it up with their hierarchy of who god likes best. You may be right, but that would be a shame if violence was honored and women's sexual choices condemned for tens of thousands of years.
there are a lot of distortions in present day Hinduism. The caste system was never meant to be hierarchical, one caste "higher" than another. The controlling and violent treatment of women in modern day Hindu culture is another. Today's Hindu culture is distorted and has many elements of violence, racism, (distorted) caste-ism, and misogyny that I believe did not exist in the ancient culture.
In Hinduism that is true to its roots, Sanatana Dharma, women were held in the highest regard and they were to be treated as Goddesses. Goddess culture was a part of true Hinduism. Every temple that had a male deity also had his Goddess consort. Vishnu had Lakshmi who governs true wealth (not just money), Brahma had Saraswati who governs language and knowledge, etc. The Goddess was at least as important as the male deity and in most cases had far more devotees than the male deity.
It's a sad sign of our times that religions, including Hinduism, have become so distorted, that people kill other people in the name of religion! The purpose of all religion is to bring the practitioner back to Source, back to God. It's in the etymology of the word itself: bind back to the Unbounded, bind back to Source, to God.
One of my spiritual teachers who happens to be Indian and is called Amma, also known as the hugging saint, has decried violence against women. She has built new temples around India where she is having women priests perform the ceremonies (something that hasn't been done for thousands of years). The male dominated culture of violence against women, violence against "low caste" people, violence against other human beings in the name of religion is on the way out. A new world that not only respects and reveres women, but places them at the top of human culture, is beginning.
I'm just going on the Vedas. The actual quote is in my linked article. Not only did I read it without prejudice, but my bias was FOR it because other people I admired found it insightful. When I read it, there was no other way of interpreting it. I was just reading what it says. And then later, Merlin Stone confirmed my reading with anthropology.
It doesn't matter how well women are treated by a patriarchal system in which they don't own themselves or their choices or the property on which to make a life. That's just saying, "But we're so good to our servants!" As Gandhi said (paraphrasing) the caste system in the scriptures is like arsenic in milk. It poisons the whole. So I don't think the people have distorted the religion. I think the religion has distorted the people, same as the Abrahamic ones.
But I appreciate all your hopeful words about the way things are going. I just don't think any of the hierarchical religions are serving us.
I agree with you that the patriarchal religions and beliefs that we have as societies around the globe are not serving us. I have hope that we are coming into a time where that is changing.
I disagree though about the distortion. It's obvious that the state of most religions today, including Hinduism, is a distortion of Truth. Some religions began in a time of distortion (the last 6000 years). The ones that began prior to that have suffered distortions over the past 6000 years.
You said you quoted the Vedas. The Vedas are in Sanskrit, so someone had to translate (interpret) what the Sanskrit meant. I believe those scriptures were meant to be listened to in their original language and not to be read and "studied" or "interpreted". It's the sound of hearing them chanted that has an effect, not somebody's interpretation of the meaning. Amma has said, the intellectuals have hijacked religion. Because true religion is not so much about understanding as it is about devotion, feeling, and Being.
The reason for my original post was to point out how our biases as a culture can lead to basically make up stuff! I'm white, by the way, most of my genetic lineage is English with some Irish, Scotch, French, and German thrown in. I am not proud of what my white culture did to indigenous people all over the globe during the period of colonization.
I love your use of pun-based headers - very creative and humorous.
Thank you for your continued deep-dives that I have neither the time nor inclination to do.
Yet, I love it when you do the heavy lifting for us, and I can just see the finished product.
Thank you so much, Philip!
hola, tereza.
i really enjoyed this latest tendril into dismantling a narrative that serves the masters henchmen. and it is telling and beautiful when the various aspects of being human come together to help clue us in: i particularly love the etymological connections, being a word lover.
and it may be slightly off topic and yet somehow not: did you know that the bodhidharma, the man who took Buddhism from india into china, was blue-eyed and by some is described as having red-hair? (a hint of an introduction is here: https://darumasan.blogspot.com/2005/02/me-blue-eyes-of-daruma.html )
hasta luego.
we are living the bhagavad-gita wedded to the great apocalypse! all the best with what is changing. everything changes! with peace, respect, love and equanimous enthusiasm.
🙏❤️🧘♂️🙌☯️🙌🧘♂️❤️🙏
I did not know that! Fascinating clue! I'll definitely check that link. Thanks for reading, Guy.
hola, tereza.
that link is a very basic introduction to the difficult and enigmatical bodhidharma. i've not done a deep dive on him. i simply come across references to him being blued eyed and, at times, red-haired. he is also reported, by some, to have been the developer of what became kung fu in china. again, i haven't done the deep dive to get the skinny on that. hmmmmm.
Well, well, well, Tereza. You've been busy! Glad you stayed in the fight. Yes, it's me - Ratio.
What did I miss?
Can I hit that Like 12 times? Ratio!!!! We have so missed you! Where ya been? There was a mini-detective hunt going on among your friends. But despite our sleuthing, no clue. So happy to see you and your new moniker!
Didn't mean to startle anyone. God told me it was time for a break.
I'm working on a post that explains everything. You're going to have to get used to me writing with no F-bombs.
I did find the answer to the ultimate conspiracy. The answer is surprising. More to come...
I'm looking forward to that! I became friends with Amy of What's In a Name Really? because of you and I've done a number of posts using her amazing AI art. Here's one: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/the-horus-gamos
I'm gonna say, Iran as in iron ore and metals contained; and Er as in errant meaning "astray, wondering", all in reference to the Iranian plate.
Then Noble for the lighter gases escaping from decaying ancient rocks and oil/gas deposits.
: )
Excellent deciphering, sumwoman!
I’m only learning now about ancient Indian history so can’t claim to know very much at all, save for the few bits and bobs I’ve picked up in books I’ve read only very recently. And as I didn’t train in history, linguistics, archeology, or anthropology, I must confess I am not too sure how to interpret evidence or discern what counts as quality evidence. So it’s interesting to read this and also all the comments and expand my brain!
This is a bit random (or maybe totally random!) but picking up on the note around Aryans being (sedentary) farmers as well as being nomadic violent colonisers…in humans, is there evidence to support the idea that sedentary grain-centred agriculture led to more violent, hierarchical societies compared with nomadic hunter-gatherer groups? I guess this is like saying is patriarchy the root cause or our agricultural practices…(!) and then asking what the corollaries of that might be??
From the science training I do have, I know that there is quite a bit of evidence to support the hypothesis that animals with more stable and abundant food sources tend to exhibit more aggressive behaviours. Which seems odd as you’d think more food = less hunger = more cooperative behaviours. Instead we tend to find more competitive behaviours, like vocalisation, physical combat, aggressive displays and chasing. Indirect competition also occurs via the formation of dominance hierarchies (ie a ranking system “pecking order” lol) which in theory is meant to reduce the energetic cost of outright aggressive behaviours.
Predictors of which species (or individuals) “win” combats or monopolise resources at supplementary feeders include body size and also odour, aggressiveness, hunger and weapons (the latter four can lead smaller species/individuals to out-compete larger ones). As the difference in body size between two organisms increases, the likelihood of a direct encounter increases. Ditto for high population density.
On the other hand when food is less spatially and temporally predictable, less dominant species can access more food. So for supplementary feeding of endangered species, a conservation “management” intervention could be providing food but less predictably spatially and temporally (not in the same place or time everyday) to prevent non-target species from monopolising the food supply.
So that brings me back to my question…bearing in mind the dangers of extrapolating animal research to humans (social Darwinism and all) and the fact that I have probably zero knowledge of what the literature says about abundance of food/resources correlation (if any) to the formation of hierarchy in humans. And there are probably a ton of other factors eg permaculture type practices are more holistic and living in harmony with nature (as opposed to modern day agriculture which is monoculture/dominance and control based); there are awesome stories from places eg Kingdom of Benin where there was no crime (indeed, no doors on the houses!) because everything was so abundant…
So if anyone can enlighten me on this in the human realm, much appreciated!
I'll answer you and Crow here, LoWa, since I think you're both asking the same question, in different ways. Let me start with what I'm accepting as my starting points but maybe not the right order:
In ancient Egypt, a small band of tall, red-haired men representing the cult of Set usurped the rule of the priestess representing the Goddess, using the name of her house, Par-O, as their own name for king. If the story of Joseph represents this time, I think they did impose grain production as a means of taxation.
The Set Par-O included all the ones with Seti in their names, plus Ramsses, Amenhotep. They used warriors of a different race--Hittites, Habiru. They were kicked out by Ahmoses and maybe went to Greece and became the Hellenists. I'm not dogmatic on the existence of ancient Rome: the word Hellenist is used to describe who the anti-imperialists oppose.
Iran is where we know they used the word Aryan for themselves. When it's defined as meaning noble, we take that as an adjective. But I think it was 'a noble', a member of the ruling class. A small aristocracy, not a whole race. Those left behind weren't Aryans because they weren't the 'sky gods.' The name was made up by them to describe themselves, it wasn't what they were called in the generations before they left home and developed their techniques of terrorism and conquest.
Those living in Iran weren't Aryan, only the ruling class. I think they all answered to the same hierarchy and coordinated attacks, distracting here so they could conquer there. When they come to India, they speak Sanskrit 'the language of the gods' but there's no written version. They write their mythologies in other languages. The Yahwist scriptures were written first, then the Priestly books of the Torah and the Vedas. In all of them, intermarriage btw races or castes is the greatest prohibition.
When they come back to Europe, it's as conquerers through the Roman Empire? The language they impose is Latin. They eradicate all of the mother tongues, in the same way they destroyed Goddess and the rights of mothers. Instead, they develop languages that have their 'hex words' in them, so that it restricts the ways people can communicate and think.
So I would say the languages are Aryan, not because the people are, but because the 'sky gods' or heirs of the air made sure only their languages survived. The speech group isn't arrogant assholes but the air gods are, including their latest spawn of the Rothschilds. And I do think they intermarried with the nobility--using their women as concubines and then promoting the son as the divinely appointed heir. Divinity passes through the mother, and they were the high priests, the grand vizier behind the throne.
That's my best guess de jour!
Also randomly thinking about “hex” and “set” and “sex” and how these are almost the same word. In Hindi the “s” and “h” are adjacent in the alphabet and so I think of the sounds as similar.
Hex means curse. But hex also means 6 (hexane , hexagon)
Sex means…well you know what sexual intercourse means! Sex also means six (“sextuplet”).
Is it odd that the sacred act of conception (sex) is synonymous with being a curse (hex)? Or maybe that’s Eve tempting Adam into sin in the garden…And if depopulation were your aim, does it make sense to see sex as a curse?
And why are both these words tied up with the number 6?? Star of David is what first comes to mind. But the second thing i think of is structured water, where H3O2 forms a hexagonal crystalline structure, which is how spring water seems to be organised. And there is all kinds of healing properties to this.
https://www.structuredwaterunit.com/articles/structuredwater/dr-gerald-pollack-and-structured-water-science
Water crystallography with the healing waters produces clear snowflakes with six points. Tap water doesn’t do this.
https://www.vedaaustin.com/videos
So are there some inverted meanings here? Maybe 6 is a “good” number? But it’s been taken to mean something bad?
Is there something odd going on with hex/sex/set?
I'll respond to you here, Catchadragon, to catch both you and LoWa. I'm really glad to see this connection--two deep researchers and logical thinkers.
Krivda is next up on my list to read, although there's much more from When God Was a Woman I want to talk about first. What's key to the sex change from Goddess to God is that it changed the character of God to one that wanted sacrifice, something that would be anathema to any mother with her children.
In the Torah, up until Abdi-Ashirta/ Abraham, the child that 'opened the womb' had to be 'dedicated' to God, meaning sacrificed. Abdi-Ashirta's inability to have a child with the priestess who carried divinity to the son--until he sent her away to have sex with the 'lord'--changed this because he wasn't willing to sacrifice that son and give power to the lower caste son Ishmael. And Goddess knows if Ishmael was even his son, when it seems like his problem impregnating Sara.
The concept of sacred as sacrifice is crucial, a word that includes cross and crux and crucible. Torture and pain as what will give the one ordering the sacrifice power OVER god, the means to boss god around. It's not just god's gender that matters, it's that this is unthinkable for a mother.
For the priestess, the purpose of divination was to understand the Will of Goddess, knowing that would be the best for everyone.
And yes, LoWa, I think that 6 was a divine number, from Diva, Goddess, not sacred hex-six meaning sacrifice to the fukker god. I think five and the pentacle was a hex number. I'll be looking at the tarot reading Isaac did for me later today and pentacles come up repeatedly, and not in a good way.
In an early video, I looked at the six-pointed star as an overlay of the masculine pyramid and the upside-down (or right-side up) matrix that expands into arms reaching out.
To echo Catchadragon, good connections! To both of you!
Fascinating! It’s been a while since I read Krivda and my brain is fuzzy on details but would love to know where it aligns with and where it contradicts your work so can’t wait for your analysis of it.
Also just thinking aloud here about the cross, Crucible, crux, cruzar (in Spanish means “to cross” like to cross a road).
Isn’t it strange that the way teachers mark students’ answers that are incorrect is with a “x”, ie a cross? So a cross means “wrong” but if you wear a cross around your neck (shaped like “t”) as a Christian, you are “right”? (And usually on the right wing of the political spectrum too).
Also is there something weird going on with the cross i.e. X. X is Elon Musk’s favourite letter by the sounds of things. He’s named lots of his companies with an X…What is going on here?? Also “Disease X” was being floated for a while.
“X” when said aloud also means “out” - as in external, extraterrestrial, extant, extinct, excommunicated. And humans are either in the “in” club or we are “out” in an out group, outsiders, outcast, too outspoken, outlandish, “out there.” So it strikes me that a cross or X is not a good thing…? But sometimes is -eg “extraordinary”, excellent, ecstatic.
On a related note I do like quadrants which are created by a kind of cross (vertical and horizontal) although this is problematic in western dualistic Cartesian reductionist thinking because it reduces everything to your x-y axis. A 2D plane, flattening reality, oversimplifying it, erasing texture and difference and holism and systems. But the number 4 (after all X has four sides) is deeply spiritual in indigenous cultures - the four winds, the four sacred animals (jaguar, serpent, hummingbird, eagle), the four elements, the four seasons, the four compass points.
So there may be some krivda (deception / crooked truth) going on with cross / X / quadrants / four..?
This is totally me musing off the cuff and impromptu so keen to hear anyone else’s thoughts!
Oh and the obvious links between Christ, cross/X :
X = Christ
Xtian = Christian
Xmas = Christmas
Edit: few additions:
X marks the spot
X as the pirate ship flag (skull and crossbones)
X as in quadrants but ones that look more like a swastika (spiritual symbol in India; co-opted by nazis)
Oh so interesting. The svastika co-opted by AshkeNazis.
You'll like my new one. I'm eager to hear your thoughts.
Did I write this somewhere you read, LoWa, or are we just thinking with the same mind? Yes, definitely the word sex combines Set Hex. And sacred means 'a worthy sacrifice.' Don't women call their courses The Curse? And isn't that what Yahweh does to Eve with pain in 'labor'?
Depop doesn't go that far back, or we wouldn't be here. But rape sure does. It turned pro-creation into putting a hex on women and forcing them to be a beast of burden for the man's precious seed.
LOVE your sleuthing on the number 6. There are no bad numbers, of course, but 6 does seem especially magical--if we could excise the magi out of that word.
Have I told you I found a whole world of new women sites--thanks to either you or Nonna, someone who subbed, whose reposts I checked out. This one is great and goes straight to why matrilocal and matrilineal are the way Goddess designed us: https://womenscoalition.substack.com/p/are-fathers-irrelevant-do-only-mothers.
In my brain I have the phrase “hexane set cult” from somewhere (may have been something you wrote but I’m just mis-remembering the actual phrase) and I just woke up the morning thinking “is it 6 o clock yet?” Lol. And then thinking about hex/sex
Oooh yes I did learn of sacred/sacrifice from Enna Reitort in Krivda!
That’s a good point about rape. And blame it on woman since women are cursed and dirty (menstrual blood) and evil anyways!
I’ve had a side obsession with water since I discovered Gerard Pollack’s TED talk and Veda Austin’s water crystallography…so wasn’t too much sleuthing required! I just had the hexagonal atom bond structure imprinted in my brain. Also from chemistry classes at high school - graphene also has the hexagonal latticework structure.
And so do honeycombs! And snowflakes, quartz crystals, many molecules (fructose, testosterone, heroin), pollen grains, cells arrangement in plant tissues, insect eyes, reptile scales, bubbles in the surface of water, butterfly wing scales…
Nature has many hexagonal structures. Honeycomb structures are strong and also space efficient. You can very densely pack stuff together using that structure. https://asknature.org/strategy/honeycomb-structure-is-space-efficient-and-strong/
https://nautil.us/why-nature-prefers-hexagons-235863/
Very interesting piece on father irrelevance! Although wish I could say they “should” do more to make themselves more relevant haha, as when a mum is nursing up through the night, if the man wants kids so badly he should make life easier for her, change diapers, clean the house, cook food because she’s a zombie during that time. And he probably isn’t. Instead men are leading causes of death for pregnant women and can turn nasty when kids are born
Speaking of water: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/weaponizing-water.
And just for fun: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/a-drop-of-god.
Oooh these have a bunch of links I have to follow up on! And also in your other post from today - comments are now closed on Crow’s post but I’ll have a proper read of your reply on ethics/sovereignty/freedom soon 😊☀️ I think my quick takeaway is that we do agree the facts of the matter do matter and therefore do determine what makes something ok / justifiable / ethical, in addition to whether it would be ethical in reverse.
PS are you planning to go to Crone Island? It’s a mythical place where women dance in the moonlight and sip margaritas hi fiving each other…Could be a good place to test out your community building ideas! 💃🌒🏝️
Nice connections LoWa
May I add,
As JL Lash pointed out Sac is the Sanskrit for power. Sacrifice, sacral, sacrilege, sacrosanct,sacred, sacrament. Some relate to transformation and power or an alchemy happening.
A related thought about “sky gods”…why is god located in the sky?
Is it because sky = father = good = god = light = up = male and because earth/dirt = mother (“Mother Earth”) = evil (Eve) = dark = down = female?
And we’ve built a culture to systematically devalue the latter - women, nature, dark-skinned people…
In some cultures it’s Pachamama or Papatūānuku (earth mother, although in Māori culture there’s a sky father too, Ranginui).
Wowzers I feel like I’m reading an encyclopedia/PhD condensed into a comment. And as I haven’t followed all the threads through their winding journeys, I feel like I have a lot to catch up on! I’m going to reread this a few times to digest it and spend some time going down the rabbit holes myself so I understand it all better.
I’m also wondering - you’ve read so much and analysed all these things so deeply..what is your thought process when you come across a new source? How do you know it’s legit? I ask because when it comes to ancient history, I’d like to learn more but also keen to learn how to be more discerning about what’s real and what’s not! (Or perhaps “on balance, what’s more likely to be true”)🙏🏾😊
Excellent question! Somewhere I think I have a post that talks about that.
I start with my dogma, that I'm no better than anyone else. If the person is writing from a position of 'us vs them' with superiority built in, I can sometimes use their data but not their conclusions.
And I look at how the data fits with other things I've found to be true. And the ordinary things--footnotes, writing style, are they trying to make money, get ahead in academia, or just figuring things out? When someone like Merlin Stone puts all that work into researching when it's not even her field, she's more likely to be finding something interesting, I find.
Thanks for the deep dive and references Tereza. I’ll reread when I have more time (always a challenge). I can only follow the edges of this discussion unfortunately. So I rely heavily on others interpretations such as you and Crow. I do pick up some of the reference books for my history library but admit I have yet to read many (library primarily for my granddaughter now). My sense is that this history is important to understand current events, tribal motivations, and where the power brokers are taking us. But true human/earth history is found in the largely hidden (manipulated and suppressed) history of peasantry and paganism. I’ve found that people who have suffered the conquerors are more aligned with my evolving understanding of what is real, and (perhaps not coincidentally) important. My lifetime experiences have reinforced my belief that with enough foundational truth, I can see the future with high probability, and better prepare. For my sons and granddaughter. I’m curious about the euro goddesses. What was their morphology? (That may not be the right word.) Again, thanks for the mind warp adventure.
What you pointed out about the contradiction between the Proto-Indo-Europeans/Aryans being nomadic and being farmers is a good point. It's something that occurred to me, as well. What is apparent is that the Proto-Indo-European had a range of native words that referred to agriculture. Those words were not borrowed from another language, as was the case for seafaring terms, which were borrowed from a semitic language.
There is not necessarily any contradiction here - it is entirely possible that speakers of the same language could live different life styles. Some could have been farmers and others could have been raiders/conquering assholes. There are other possible scenarios that could explain this apparent contradiction.
As for the beekeeping, I might have been wrong about that. They could have harvested wild honey to make their alcohol.
Also, I don't have a degree in anthropology... I do consider myself an amateur anthropologist, but I don't have credentials... yet. I have been taking courses at an online university though.
I appreciate having someone handy who's delved into this. Your credentials work for me.
The earliest pre-written language of the Aryans (defined as those who ruled Iran) is ... Sanskrit? Is there any remnants of indigenous (non-Aryan) languages that still exist from the English/ Irish/ Scottish areas?
Interesting about the agriculture words and seafaring terms.
The only pre-Aryan non-Indo-European languages which survive in Europe are Basque and Saami.
The only other non-PIE-descended languages in Europe are Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian, but these languages can be traced back to people who migrated westward from the Uralic mountains more recently.
All the languages that are known to have existed in the British Isles are all descended from PIE. Presumably there were languages spoken there before, but we don't know anything about them.
Hmmm ... just wondering again about that PIE terminology. How can a non-proto-European language have survived in Europe? Aren't Saami and Basque proto-European by definition, since they were in Europe originally and survived the monopoly on languages by Aryan derivatives?
If the Aryans brought Sanskrit to India, which they used among themselves before it was ever written and called 'the language of the gods,' it seems like it must have come from somewhere and been wiped from memory--intentionally?
Maybe sans krit means without credibility ;-)
It may be helpful to think of PIE as a linguistic term, rather than a geographic one.
If you replaced PIE with the term Aryan, the confusion would disappears. Saami and Basque and non-Aryan languages, but they are European languages.
It does seem like the Aryans have been written out of history since WWII, at least in the West. They're not the focus of as much archaeological research as you would think, given their importance to world history.
I'm glad that you've taken up the cause of rescuing the word, although I would say that tarring an entire speech community as aggressive assholes probably isn't the best way of representing them. And I don't think they were inbred; I think they expanded through strategic alliance-building marriages with people of many different ethnicities.
But when you try to reconstruct the customs of an ancient people you're entering the realm of speculation.
I answered this with LoWa's reply: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/aryan-sky-gods/comment/118289557.
Byrdturd on X: "The "pandemic" was a trigger to accelerate the Cybernetic Revolution.. If you do not know what that is and would like to know, check out this video.. The final phase of the Cybernetic Revolution will begin in the 2030s. COVID-19 pandemic as a trigger for the acceleration of the https://t.co/V8cKySxzGs" / X
https://x.com/Byrdturd86/status/1914123929905500352
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040162521007794
What does this have to do with my post, Angie?
The "Aryans" came out of India. They didn't invade India, they didn't have a picnic in India and spread the Vedas into India from Central Asia. The Vedas have been part of Hindu culture for at least 10,000 years, most likely tens of thousands of years.
White people mostly from England couldn't accept the fact that Sanskrit is the root language for most European languages, couldn't accept the fact that the Vedas are older than age of the earth that "scholars" had determined based on the Bible (6000 years), so they invented the Aryan invasion theory. There's no evidence to support that theory, so they changed it to the Aryan migration theory and there's no evidence to support that either.
Abhijit Chavda presents evidence to support this on his youtube channel and also in many articles and publications like this one:
https://hindupost.in/history/the-aryan-invasion-myth-how-21st-century-science-debunks-19th-century-indology/
Hi pimaCanyon. I did a post responding to the Bhagavad Gita before I read any history. Actually, I did a few because Nefahotep was writing about it and I did a couple that added my understandings of other mystical texts to his: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/the-isha-the-gita-and-the-course and https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/bhagavad-gita-and-palestine.
And then, on someone's recommendation (Julius?) I listened to PhilosophiCat read passages from it for this episode: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/good-vs-evil. What shocked me was its similarity to the moral code of the Torah--violence is required by god in order to prevent women from having sex with men in other castes. That's the rationale. Here's what I write after quoting the BG:
"So it all comes back to the women. Without a strong dynasty enforcing the religion, the women will have sex or marry for love and not within their own caste. These children are unwanted—not by their fathers or mothers but by the ruling caste. Those bastards, figuratively or literally, will stop giving food and water to their ancestors! They won’t do community projects and family welfare activities! All the ancestors will go to hell!
"So that’s why it’s righteous and good to kill these kinsmen, who are not subjugating the women, so that you don’t end up in hell. Does anyone else see a strong correlation to the Torah, with its condoning of violence and condemnation of love? The ‘sin’ that can never be forgiven by Yahweh is intermarriage with the Canaanites. All the killing in revenge for that is a-okay with God."
That contradicts my only dogma that I'm no better than anyone else, although light-skinned Brahmin males may defend it. Since reading Merlin Stone, I was surprised to discover she'd made the same observation of similarity--and had the anthropology to back it up. And LoWa, a dark-skinned Indian feminist, confirms that colorism and patriarchy are not mere religious concepts that have no consequences.
What you're insisting is that racism and sexism are indigenous to India for tens of thousands of years and, unlike their neighbors, NEVER had a Goddess culture that saw all people as equal and prioritized the mothers who prioritized the children. Instead, India has always served the egos of men.
My research doesn't agree and states that India had one of the most advanced Goddess societies with a highly developed matrifocal civilization until the Aryans fucked it up with their hierarchy of who god likes best. You may be right, but that would be a shame if violence was honored and women's sexual choices condemned for tens of thousands of years.
there are a lot of distortions in present day Hinduism. The caste system was never meant to be hierarchical, one caste "higher" than another. The controlling and violent treatment of women in modern day Hindu culture is another. Today's Hindu culture is distorted and has many elements of violence, racism, (distorted) caste-ism, and misogyny that I believe did not exist in the ancient culture.
In Hinduism that is true to its roots, Sanatana Dharma, women were held in the highest regard and they were to be treated as Goddesses. Goddess culture was a part of true Hinduism. Every temple that had a male deity also had his Goddess consort. Vishnu had Lakshmi who governs true wealth (not just money), Brahma had Saraswati who governs language and knowledge, etc. The Goddess was at least as important as the male deity and in most cases had far more devotees than the male deity.
It's a sad sign of our times that religions, including Hinduism, have become so distorted, that people kill other people in the name of religion! The purpose of all religion is to bring the practitioner back to Source, back to God. It's in the etymology of the word itself: bind back to the Unbounded, bind back to Source, to God.
One of my spiritual teachers who happens to be Indian and is called Amma, also known as the hugging saint, has decried violence against women. She has built new temples around India where she is having women priests perform the ceremonies (something that hasn't been done for thousands of years). The male dominated culture of violence against women, violence against "low caste" people, violence against other human beings in the name of religion is on the way out. A new world that not only respects and reveres women, but places them at the top of human culture, is beginning.
I'm just going on the Vedas. The actual quote is in my linked article. Not only did I read it without prejudice, but my bias was FOR it because other people I admired found it insightful. When I read it, there was no other way of interpreting it. I was just reading what it says. And then later, Merlin Stone confirmed my reading with anthropology.
It doesn't matter how well women are treated by a patriarchal system in which they don't own themselves or their choices or the property on which to make a life. That's just saying, "But we're so good to our servants!" As Gandhi said (paraphrasing) the caste system in the scriptures is like arsenic in milk. It poisons the whole. So I don't think the people have distorted the religion. I think the religion has distorted the people, same as the Abrahamic ones.
But I appreciate all your hopeful words about the way things are going. I just don't think any of the hierarchical religions are serving us.
I agree with you that the patriarchal religions and beliefs that we have as societies around the globe are not serving us. I have hope that we are coming into a time where that is changing.
I disagree though about the distortion. It's obvious that the state of most religions today, including Hinduism, is a distortion of Truth. Some religions began in a time of distortion (the last 6000 years). The ones that began prior to that have suffered distortions over the past 6000 years.
You said you quoted the Vedas. The Vedas are in Sanskrit, so someone had to translate (interpret) what the Sanskrit meant. I believe those scriptures were meant to be listened to in their original language and not to be read and "studied" or "interpreted". It's the sound of hearing them chanted that has an effect, not somebody's interpretation of the meaning. Amma has said, the intellectuals have hijacked religion. Because true religion is not so much about understanding as it is about devotion, feeling, and Being.
The reason for my original post was to point out how our biases as a culture can lead to basically make up stuff! I'm white, by the way, most of my genetic lineage is English with some Irish, Scotch, French, and German thrown in. I am not proud of what my white culture did to indigenous people all over the globe during the period of colonization.