Way back, there used to be "fruit tramps" who would be called to pick fruit and vegetables quickly. They had loose affiliations with each other, to prevent undercutting each other and made decent wages for their quick and hard labor of harvest. They didn't have to work all year, because instead of the steady slow grind, they worked their asses off for shorter periods.
Later on, farmers persuaded government to allow for seasonal workers. This made getting help cheaper by legalizing temporary immigration. Fruit tramps lost their business because they could hire more cheap labor instead for the same amount of harvest.
Around the same time, the US was messing around with governments in central and south America, which made those people have an incentive to go north to work in the US.
Where immigration got screwed up, connects to your idea of fines for employers of illegal immigrants. There are laws on the books to prosecute the employers, but the Reagan administration started the trend to not enforce this.
It was by design, globalization and later pointing the finger at immigration to get Americans angry at someone else, but not the oligarchs who control politics.
And now we are still facing this issue.
Every step of the way, they keep destroying working class solidarity by dividing us.
But these days, a lot of the divisions like white collar vs blue collar have become so muddied that perhaps we are facing humanity seeing that it doesn't pay off to sell out other people in order to please the shareholders, because one day you'll be on the chopping block too!
As we pass through different ages, people start to see new things and ask new questions.
This is a ripe time with globalization and capitalism have shown us their teeth during covid.
You make excellent points, Rob. I'd never heard about the fruit tramps before. And yes, I think I have the stat in my book that US corporations own 40% of the plots over 100 hectares in Mexico. So I think deportation should start with them.
I agree that we've been divided and conquered, and also that this is a ripe time. No matter what, things are coming to the surface that have been hidden. I think that's hopeful.
Words matter so much. You seem to be able to choose your words carefully but i really think it just comes naturally to you. Thank you for your defining words for the rest of us. I also had never heard about the arrangements of the feudal era. Sound like i have a lot of work to do. I've been reading up on Benjamin Franklin and his scrip. But you can't delve into his life without finding out that he was involved in so much more. What an inspiration.
The title of this post reminds that the KRRRWEFKOMTI who run the world always look at everything and say "money is no object" we'll just create more.
KRRRWEFKOMTI stand for Khazarian/Radnight/Rothschild/Rockefeller/WorldEconomicForum/KnightsOFMalta/Templars/Illuminati for what it's worth. Insert your own label(s) at will. I don't know if we'll ever know, but the apocalypse (The Great Unveiling) approaches.
And somehow you managed to omit the Fabians and The Pilgrim Society. 😉
Yes, the apocalypse is actually in process, it is happening now. What an amazing time to be alive, when the KRRRWEFKOMTIFPS have actually poked their heads out from behind the curtain for us to see. I think that they overplayed their hand because they got sucker-punched by their own date rhetoric about the end of the earth and have MBAed themselves into taking actions disconnected from the complexity of the global interrelated community that comprises the current globe. Still a big mess ahead even though, as it looks to me anyway, the 'they that they are' are bungling their efforts like a perfect MBA with silly names and hubristic plans.
Thank you for the compliment, Specie, and for reading this more theoretical post. It's not everyone's cup of tea! Oh that's interesting that you're reading about ol' Ben. There are those, like Miles Mathius, who question his involvement but I still think actions speak louder than geneology. I like your acronym, it's a mouthful! And yes, money is no object to THEM. So shouldn't we take that literally?
19 minutes, smith theory is missing some precision. woman did bake butch and all the other listed but it wasnt free. if a woman is married to a man and the man brings back money, as a children works in school to make a better futur that will pour on the family temple, a woman add purpose in all she done brought back a similar revenue to the temple. He makes a valide point in saying we all act out of our self love when creating and wanting to give bigger worth to that. So the indeginous example makes more sense to me since its male female in their society also present but not an obstacle to understanding their based same value. i love old days, and the father of old theory lol. unlike fouceault and yuval the twins hehe
So in my opinion, woman created back then as much as the man(if not more) and even the children produced a lot. they all have a purpose and it was nourrishing the family well. Nowaday i feel we all lost purpose especialy in family matters. Kids dont know how to give remembrance to parents, many parent live their life without thinking about what impact they will leave to their child, man and woman are soo disconnected we have a pedophilia homosexuality big major problem that gave birth to transickness.(ty fouceault and butler lol, yeah its getting old i know i'm an eternal kiddo)
Why i put emphasis on family is simple and relates to economics. a family of ten will have easier mean to overcome most family of 3 and under. each member is a cash multiplicity possibility. the woman and the man may be first, but their fruit will be last. If we have fruitfull family we do the rothchild dance and its our gain there lost. The fact that every member of a family since the beginning of time and even before money was existant, Is a potential value. It makes vision over what is economics source different. I think china society did start by big family getting raid by yakuza who gained the hard earned land and prosperity gained by the cooperative work of big and well organised family. Getting back at the slavemarket here lol. After all we are the economic power in any way.
Apart from that adam smith segment i agree with your reflections and most sir Smith says except that part.Noe i will play the game
I hold theses truth to be self evident... that money comes from ressource+human interaction
that more human & more cooperation is fruitfull
that big family was a treat to them due to that
So i would make a society globocal, yup smashed the 2 words. So we get as my way of tenth lots of bocal of no higher than 10 viewing over 10 viewing over 10 in any sector of society. global filled with local that makes a sphere full of sphere. Aint life a bubble anyway hehe
For my economic utopy as pastly said i loved Fresco City of atlantis design and the transparency robotisation in it was for me the good way to use technology. like how synarchy and some good theory gets thorn apart before even being born. they were threats maybe.
i appreciate the already made question to inspire our reflexion. its great exercise and often rise idea that is not in the mind of the reader, since we all build our own questionning. its good technique you build your substack on =)
Very good observations, Jean-Sebastien. I've used the word glocal, kludging the two. My Food in the Hood logo says, "Building global unity through local community." Both definitely tied together.
i've went trought all your links and didnt found chapter 21 where you said caret system starts. is it in your archive? can i have a link, or am i too early and its a in process reading? if so i would like to buy your book. Not wanting to force you to spoil the content fo that interesting book you wrote.
when gobocal and glocal meets, seems we agree to agree ;)
The reading is in-process, I'm afraid, and a long way to go. I skipped around before I started reading them in order. It's only on Amazon. If you'd like to DM your email, I can send you a pdf.
On the possible means by making the non-existence of money possible, I followed similar lines in my 'Economics Debunked' course that I put together and taught. And, oddly enough, my friend brought that topic up today at lunch, on his own completely unaware that I had listened to your ideas.
And the next thing that came to mind was Jane Jacob's provocative book *Cities and the Wealth of Nations: Principles of Economic Life* (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85401.Cities_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations) in which she argues, among other things, that the great American cities had been sacrificed to be dismantled as soon as the central banking system eliminated the city-based currencies. And their decline was cited as proof of her argument. At the time when I read that the Euro was being put into place and so a perfect opportunity to watch if Jacob's argument was valid. And, it appears that that has basically has happened, as there has been a pooling of wealth similar to what Jacobs described in the more efficient countries.
And your discussion brought clarity to my thinking about the 'bully' nature of our culture. I've thought about this often, and talked about it too. Today was the first time a connected the money system as a key part of the bully culture and how invisible that bullying nature is to us.
I love that Marilyn Waring talk, although it wasn't available at that link. If my radio show archives were still accessible, I'd show you where I talked about it ten years ago, and showed it to my daughters as part of their outside-curricula education.
I did check out the Jane Jacobs book when you recommended it before. I thought I talked about it but looking back, I may have just put some thoughts into a draft. What I read was a detailed review, wait, oh yes, I did finally find where I quoted it: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/mysticism-and-economics. The review didn't mention the city-based currencies, so that does seem right up my alley. It again makes me think that I should read my chapter on Greece next (although I like the idea of tossing a coin to confirm) since someone else commented on my article on Yanis Varoufakis, who's featured in it.
Bully culture is a great term and fits into my sense that we're run by toxic masculinity with a side-helping of pedo-sadism.
Immigration.
Way back, there used to be "fruit tramps" who would be called to pick fruit and vegetables quickly. They had loose affiliations with each other, to prevent undercutting each other and made decent wages for their quick and hard labor of harvest. They didn't have to work all year, because instead of the steady slow grind, they worked their asses off for shorter periods.
Later on, farmers persuaded government to allow for seasonal workers. This made getting help cheaper by legalizing temporary immigration. Fruit tramps lost their business because they could hire more cheap labor instead for the same amount of harvest.
Around the same time, the US was messing around with governments in central and south America, which made those people have an incentive to go north to work in the US.
Where immigration got screwed up, connects to your idea of fines for employers of illegal immigrants. There are laws on the books to prosecute the employers, but the Reagan administration started the trend to not enforce this.
It was by design, globalization and later pointing the finger at immigration to get Americans angry at someone else, but not the oligarchs who control politics.
And now we are still facing this issue.
Every step of the way, they keep destroying working class solidarity by dividing us.
But these days, a lot of the divisions like white collar vs blue collar have become so muddied that perhaps we are facing humanity seeing that it doesn't pay off to sell out other people in order to please the shareholders, because one day you'll be on the chopping block too!
As we pass through different ages, people start to see new things and ask new questions.
This is a ripe time with globalization and capitalism have shown us their teeth during covid.
You make excellent points, Rob. I'd never heard about the fruit tramps before. And yes, I think I have the stat in my book that US corporations own 40% of the plots over 100 hectares in Mexico. So I think deportation should start with them.
I agree that we've been divided and conquered, and also that this is a ripe time. No matter what, things are coming to the surface that have been hidden. I think that's hopeful.
Hi Tereza,
Words matter so much. You seem to be able to choose your words carefully but i really think it just comes naturally to you. Thank you for your defining words for the rest of us. I also had never heard about the arrangements of the feudal era. Sound like i have a lot of work to do. I've been reading up on Benjamin Franklin and his scrip. But you can't delve into his life without finding out that he was involved in so much more. What an inspiration.
The title of this post reminds that the KRRRWEFKOMTI who run the world always look at everything and say "money is no object" we'll just create more.
KRRRWEFKOMTI stand for Khazarian/Radnight/Rothschild/Rockefeller/WorldEconomicForum/KnightsOFMalta/Templars/Illuminati for what it's worth. Insert your own label(s) at will. I don't know if we'll ever know, but the apocalypse (The Great Unveiling) approaches.
Love the acronym! LoL!
And somehow you managed to omit the Fabians and The Pilgrim Society. 😉
Yes, the apocalypse is actually in process, it is happening now. What an amazing time to be alive, when the KRRRWEFKOMTIFPS have actually poked their heads out from behind the curtain for us to see. I think that they overplayed their hand because they got sucker-punched by their own date rhetoric about the end of the earth and have MBAed themselves into taking actions disconnected from the complexity of the global interrelated community that comprises the current globe. Still a big mess ahead even though, as it looks to me anyway, the 'they that they are' are bungling their efforts like a perfect MBA with silly names and hubristic plans.
Thank you for the compliment, Specie, and for reading this more theoretical post. It's not everyone's cup of tea! Oh that's interesting that you're reading about ol' Ben. There are those, like Miles Mathius, who question his involvement but I still think actions speak louder than geneology. I like your acronym, it's a mouthful! And yes, money is no object to THEM. So shouldn't we take that literally?
19 minutes, smith theory is missing some precision. woman did bake butch and all the other listed but it wasnt free. if a woman is married to a man and the man brings back money, as a children works in school to make a better futur that will pour on the family temple, a woman add purpose in all she done brought back a similar revenue to the temple. He makes a valide point in saying we all act out of our self love when creating and wanting to give bigger worth to that. So the indeginous example makes more sense to me since its male female in their society also present but not an obstacle to understanding their based same value. i love old days, and the father of old theory lol. unlike fouceault and yuval the twins hehe
So in my opinion, woman created back then as much as the man(if not more) and even the children produced a lot. they all have a purpose and it was nourrishing the family well. Nowaday i feel we all lost purpose especialy in family matters. Kids dont know how to give remembrance to parents, many parent live their life without thinking about what impact they will leave to their child, man and woman are soo disconnected we have a pedophilia homosexuality big major problem that gave birth to transickness.(ty fouceault and butler lol, yeah its getting old i know i'm an eternal kiddo)
Why i put emphasis on family is simple and relates to economics. a family of ten will have easier mean to overcome most family of 3 and under. each member is a cash multiplicity possibility. the woman and the man may be first, but their fruit will be last. If we have fruitfull family we do the rothchild dance and its our gain there lost. The fact that every member of a family since the beginning of time and even before money was existant, Is a potential value. It makes vision over what is economics source different. I think china society did start by big family getting raid by yakuza who gained the hard earned land and prosperity gained by the cooperative work of big and well organised family. Getting back at the slavemarket here lol. After all we are the economic power in any way.
Apart from that adam smith segment i agree with your reflections and most sir Smith says except that part.Noe i will play the game
I hold theses truth to be self evident... that money comes from ressource+human interaction
that more human & more cooperation is fruitfull
that big family was a treat to them due to that
So i would make a society globocal, yup smashed the 2 words. So we get as my way of tenth lots of bocal of no higher than 10 viewing over 10 viewing over 10 in any sector of society. global filled with local that makes a sphere full of sphere. Aint life a bubble anyway hehe
For my economic utopy as pastly said i loved Fresco City of atlantis design and the transparency robotisation in it was for me the good way to use technology. like how synarchy and some good theory gets thorn apart before even being born. they were threats maybe.
i appreciate the already made question to inspire our reflexion. its great exercise and often rise idea that is not in the mind of the reader, since we all build our own questionning. its good technique you build your substack on =)
on to the next chapter! carets ... here i come!
Very good observations, Jean-Sebastien. I've used the word glocal, kludging the two. My Food in the Hood logo says, "Building global unity through local community." Both definitely tied together.
i've went trought all your links and didnt found chapter 21 where you said caret system starts. is it in your archive? can i have a link, or am i too early and its a in process reading? if so i would like to buy your book. Not wanting to force you to spoil the content fo that interesting book you wrote.
when gobocal and glocal meets, seems we agree to agree ;)
The reading is in-process, I'm afraid, and a long way to go. I skipped around before I started reading them in order. It's only on Amazon. If you'd like to DM your email, I can send you a pdf.
Good discussion.
For some reason this brought to mind an old film that you may find interesting, if you haven't seen it:
"Who's Counting? Marilyn Waring on Sex, Lies and Global Economics"
https://youtu.be/WS2nkr9q0VU
On the possible means by making the non-existence of money possible, I followed similar lines in my 'Economics Debunked' course that I put together and taught. And, oddly enough, my friend brought that topic up today at lunch, on his own completely unaware that I had listened to your ideas.
And the next thing that came to mind was Jane Jacob's provocative book *Cities and the Wealth of Nations: Principles of Economic Life* (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/85401.Cities_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations) in which she argues, among other things, that the great American cities had been sacrificed to be dismantled as soon as the central banking system eliminated the city-based currencies. And their decline was cited as proof of her argument. At the time when I read that the Euro was being put into place and so a perfect opportunity to watch if Jacob's argument was valid. And, it appears that that has basically has happened, as there has been a pooling of wealth similar to what Jacobs described in the more efficient countries.
And your discussion brought clarity to my thinking about the 'bully' nature of our culture. I've thought about this often, and talked about it too. Today was the first time a connected the money system as a key part of the bully culture and how invisible that bullying nature is to us.
Thank you for your efforts here.
I love that Marilyn Waring talk, although it wasn't available at that link. If my radio show archives were still accessible, I'd show you where I talked about it ten years ago, and showed it to my daughters as part of their outside-curricula education.
I did check out the Jane Jacobs book when you recommended it before. I thought I talked about it but looking back, I may have just put some thoughts into a draft. What I read was a detailed review, wait, oh yes, I did finally find where I quoted it: https://thirdparadigm.substack.com/p/mysticism-and-economics. The review didn't mention the city-based currencies, so that does seem right up my alley. It again makes me think that I should read my chapter on Greece next (although I like the idea of tossing a coin to confirm) since someone else commented on my article on Yanis Varoufakis, who's featured in it.
Bully culture is a great term and fits into my sense that we're run by toxic masculinity with a side-helping of pedo-sadism.
Even more enjoyable the second time with your lovely voice and reading skill.
Oh what a nice compliment to get from someone who's already reading the book!