" If I can resist my desire to see myself as better than others, the empire within, it allows me to entertain the possibility that we are One Mind, dreaming up the world, rather than separate “flesh-encapsulated minds” existing in the world."
And it's a nice reminder to go back in my posts 15 mos. and realize this had just gotten one comment from someone who thought my core premise was illogical ;-) As my oldest daughter said the other day, having a community of people who take my ideas seriously--whether or not they agree--is a dream come true, and something I've spent a lifetime seeking. I'm glad that you found it worth reading.
Illogical. If people are intrinsically good then the systems they create would be good. It’s circular to argue that the system that they create is the cause of their bad behavior.
People are intrinsically both “good and bad”, that is in effect the meaning of human free will, of human agency, that there is a choice we can and we MUST make to direct ourself in a way ordered towards a moral good intrinsically known to us, or we direct ourselves in a disordered way towards our selfish lusts. We have to choose who we serve.
Systems have no power, they have no Free Will, they are a set of rules or regulations created and controlled by people with power. People who behave “badly” and “blame the system” are trying to escape their guilt for choosing their lust. If you truly oppose people with power who are wielding it in an evil manner (a system) you are going to act justly in service of the moral truth you desire to replace that system, or you are going to act selfishly in service of your lusts.
“You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
Hi, Nomen. Thanks for responding and for the great Dylan quote. Let me see if I can give an example. Within the next week we in the US will pay our taxes. I certainly have a list of ways in which those taxes will be used--not just to cause suffering but to force others to cause suffering, which is my definition of evil. So when I pay my taxes am I acting in service of the moral truth or selfishly in service of my lusts? Am I responsible for the suffering it will cause when bombs drop on wedding parties? Or is the system forcing me to be complicit?
I don't concern myself with anyone else. But as a mom, if one of my daughters did something to hurt her sister, I wouldn't say, "Oh that one was born bad." I'd figure out what needed to change in my system of rewards and consequences so that I wasn't enabling it. I'm not arguing against actions having consequences but to label the person as morally inferior or bad makes it more likely they won't change. Does that make sense?
I like this:
" If I can resist my desire to see myself as better than others, the empire within, it allows me to entertain the possibility that we are One Mind, dreaming up the world, rather than separate “flesh-encapsulated minds” existing in the world."
Oh, you read my post! Thank you John.
And it's a nice reminder to go back in my posts 15 mos. and realize this had just gotten one comment from someone who thought my core premise was illogical ;-) As my oldest daughter said the other day, having a community of people who take my ideas seriously--whether or not they agree--is a dream come true, and something I've spent a lifetime seeking. I'm glad that you found it worth reading.
So…your premise
“people are intrinsically good
when people behave badly, systems are to blame”
Illogical. If people are intrinsically good then the systems they create would be good. It’s circular to argue that the system that they create is the cause of their bad behavior.
People are intrinsically both “good and bad”, that is in effect the meaning of human free will, of human agency, that there is a choice we can and we MUST make to direct ourself in a way ordered towards a moral good intrinsically known to us, or we direct ourselves in a disordered way towards our selfish lusts. We have to choose who we serve.
Systems have no power, they have no Free Will, they are a set of rules or regulations created and controlled by people with power. People who behave “badly” and “blame the system” are trying to escape their guilt for choosing their lust. If you truly oppose people with power who are wielding it in an evil manner (a system) you are going to act justly in service of the moral truth you desire to replace that system, or you are going to act selfishly in service of your lusts.
“You may be an ambassador to England or France
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls
But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody”
Dillion
Hi, Nomen. Thanks for responding and for the great Dylan quote. Let me see if I can give an example. Within the next week we in the US will pay our taxes. I certainly have a list of ways in which those taxes will be used--not just to cause suffering but to force others to cause suffering, which is my definition of evil. So when I pay my taxes am I acting in service of the moral truth or selfishly in service of my lusts? Am I responsible for the suffering it will cause when bombs drop on wedding parties? Or is the system forcing me to be complicit?
I don't concern myself with anyone else. But as a mom, if one of my daughters did something to hurt her sister, I wouldn't say, "Oh that one was born bad." I'd figure out what needed to change in my system of rewards and consequences so that I wasn't enabling it. I'm not arguing against actions having consequences but to label the person as morally inferior or bad makes it more likely they won't change. Does that make sense?