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Nefahotep's avatar

This is an excellent post, very important one too. I appreciate your approach to addressing Religion. In fact, in a major way, it's helpful to show the distinction between what a Religion is and does as opposed to the inner experience of "God," which is personal.

Religion is a centralization and specification of what God is, in order to make access to God an exclusive privilege to the few. It's effectively been a tool for establishing and maintaining Power Hierarchies, in the past. In order to provide rational for Religion, it was always necessary to diminish Spiritual Life to just what was possible through the Religion; anything else was heretical. By making everyone dependent on the church for access to God, the Elites gained power.

Once the Elites could control both God and Money, they could have control over the people and their country.

Money is an important social and economic component of control, I will be looking forward to studying in your book.

I'll be an open minded student, ------------ I promise. ;-)

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Steve Martin's avatar

Whoa! I was just heading to bed and reposting my comment from the first YouTube at the top of the page, and now wishing I was doing this in the morning so that I can take a more thoughtful dive down this rabbit hole. Will have to explore the entire post about 8 or 10 hours from now, Japan time. In the meanwhile, here is my original comment, appended with one more sentence ... though I thought of some other things to add to the dialogue later.

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Original comment:

Hi Tereza. Long time no chat. Still spending more time chasing the tail of the Lahaina massacre.

I also read and marked Kathleen's substack for further contemplation.

Reminded me of past readings of Joseph Campbell and Karen Armstrong ... as do you.

I like your definition of revelation as it matches my own ... what some have called transcendent or mystic experiences which informs the more secular / transactional majority of our time.

This is probably old news for you, so I am just yapping to myself here ... but I've found that defining terms is both important, and problematic. For example, the words 'god" or 'knowledge" are also among "all words (as) fossilized metaphors." — a very powerful insight I agree with. In that respect, we both seem to be aware of the god of Spinoza, Emerson, and Einstein ... 'spiritual naturalism' being one metaphor I have depended on in the past. I guess the reason I don't use that term so much now is because of that old Kierkegaardian paradox of the lonely traveler, after many years of searching, finally comes upon a sign of humanity ... a street sign pointing to "Truth ... 10 miles, thataway", who then embraces the street sign with the proclamation of having found the truth, and there the journey ends.

This creates the problem of how to expound or converse while fully aware that one's own discourse is ultimately limited by its own provisional literality. For example, your (our) definition of knowledge does not seem to be so different from Kathleen's definition of faith ... "The essence of faith is ultimately mysterious and individually accessed. There is nothing to criticize here. This is not where the problem of faith resides." Maybe 'faith' and 'knowledge' are two metaphors for the same experience?

Ha. Maybe this is the biggest reason I so admire the call and response of improvisational musicians. I remember a famous anecdote where during a performance, Herbie Hancock hit what he just knew was a clunker ... and Miles just listened, and responded with something that made it 'right'. Whoa. The zen of jazz.

Cheers Tereza ... back to my raking through the ashes of Lahaina, hoping to make a house, "Body and Soul" 🤣

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFMkCeP6ok ... oh wow, Amy sounds like such a good cross between Betty Carter and Billie Holiday ... a good metaphor for a collaboration between you and Kathleen.

steve

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Addendum: What I meant by referring to the god of Spinoza, Emerson, and Einstein is "god" as a metaphor for nature-in-its-entirety. I REALLY identify with your position regarding "all words (as) fossilized metaphors" ... both from a studied limits-of-logic position (Wittgenstein's Ladder, Sapir-Worf Hypothesis, Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, Emergence/Fractal theory, traditional writings about 'mystic' traditions, etc.) ... and rare, but informative, personal experience. Won't go into those personal experiences for now, but to be so few, they dovetail well with a triangulation of my readings, and form the foundation for my values and most of my 'big choice' conscious behavior.

One reason I have avoided laying out my definitions of "god" or "love" literally, is because so many of us are busy, struggling against the sociopaths running this circus. If words, (language) are ultimately frozen metaphor, trying to pin down my definitions by breathing life back into language becomes a zero-sum game. While we of good faith are trying to get our words in sync with our hearts, and then in sync with the hearts of each other ... the sociopaths, unhindered by empathy, shame, or remorse ... have burned down another Lahaina, rolled out another war, boiled up another vat of snake-oil. Those of good faith, though separated by circumstance of language and culture, are further separated by sociopathic divide-and-conquer strategies, and will always be caught in a rear-guard action, a day late and a dollar short in trying to second guess what the parasitic predators have long since been planning.

As limited and potentially dangerous as Facebook is, I am in several groups that have at least some individuals desperately trying to point out the world-wide sociopathy and spread Platonic ideals. But those who have matured, have done so within the potential and the constraints of their culture ... and many haven't found or needed the capacity to transcend their immediate social context ... or see the world in a grain of sand. Many are better able to fight the good fight from within the shield and comfort of their traditions, their frozen metaphors. I am often humbled and in awe at the specialist, technical skills a comfortable social context has allowed some to see through the sometimes sophisticated lies foisted upon us. Most of the time, rather than ask for a "time out" from the battle so that we can unpack the definitions of our fundamental values, I try to read between the lines, sift through frozen metaphors (mine and theirs) for the shields and spears that I can pass to others.

I am guessing we are able to discuss such things this far because we share so much in common.

Our language is so in sync. But I sometimes imagine a path not chosen on how to use my remaining time, capabilities, and resources ... burying myself in a mountain of metaphor, the fine arts, and whittle it all down to a grain of sand in an attempt to sway the battle at the subconscious level. Alas, in this era of algorithms churning big data into daily news feeds, even if I managed to finally carve out my grain of sand, I wonder how many ... or more importantly 'who', would see the world in it?

If. Ha. The biggest word in the English language. If it weren't way past my bedtime, I would drone on and on, and probably without realizing that you've already covered most of this ground in what I have yet to read. 😂

Will dig into your post after the morning's coffee, but it might take a while to respond. Got a doctor's appointment tomorrow, followed by a family English class.

G'night from Japan Tereza.

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